Introducing Jane C. – 65-year old enthusiastic and ever-curious participant in life with all its ups and downs!
RT: What are your thoughts about aging and getting older? What does the term old mean to you?
Jane C: I think because my mother was never an overly vain woman, and I compare this to other women I know where the mother was quite concerned. My mom felt there was nothing to be worried about in getting older; in fact she used to joke about it, i.e. “your poor old Mother” etc. My mom was very easy-going about getting older. It didn’t bother her, she wasn’t ultra-concerned about it. If her hair went white, it went white. She did the best she could. She was an energetic woman, is an energetic woman, and has always been busy so there wasn’t an issue.
But I noticed, even as early as 45 years old, that I was strongly considering plastic surgery because I thought, Gasp! I’m getting that double chin! Ooh! My looks had been very important to me. I was quite an overweight young girl and then I lost a lot of weight and was thrilled with the attention that that gave me and I worked very hard to keep it.
As the years went on, I really wanted to keep that…after that stint of wanting plastic surgery, I just gave up on that idea and thought that is just way too much money for it. I’m not willing to undergo it. I’ve tried to do the best I can with everything.
Now that I’m into my sixties, and certainly more recently, I’ve noticed that my energy level is lower than it used to be and that was surprising. I noticed it mostly with housework. I would always work four or five days a week, no problem getting things done, just whisking into a good (housework) session and I became less willing to do this…I noticed it and that little bit of an energy shift bothered me. I’ve worked out since I was 30, I eat properly and try to maintain a level of good health so I’m not really concerned about it.
But when I see older people in society and what becomes of a lot of them – they look very bent-over and their walking and mobility is more laboured, I wonder if that happens to all of us. I think maybe that won’t happen to me because I’m healthy, but none of us knows, anything can happen. It’s sad, when I see older people. I try to remember to myself, “You know, you’re going to be there someday”. It’s strange to see the way a face ages and wrinkles, the lines and how they look older. Yeah, there’s a sort-of, “Oh, I don’t want to be like that” feeling. I find some older people just don’t look happy, they seem down or don’t look people in the eye, so maybe there is a depression that comes with it. I can only hope that with the attitudes I’ve developed that it won’t impact me as much, that I’ll have good friends and ways to deal with it.
RT: You’ve spoken about old in terms of attractiveness or rather, the loss of being attractive and the loss of being seen as beautiful in the eyes of others, as well as the loss of vitality or energy. Is there anything else you’ve noticed or want to add?
Jane C: Well, if they’re upright and walking along, I’m happy for them. I feel a bit guilty for some reason, like the guilt of the survivor, if I see them looking somewhat pained or hunched over, or if they look unhappy. I feel bad for them.
RT: Yes, the frailty…
Jane C: The frailty. That’s it. And I feel that they know. It’s like when I walk past a group of young girls and they don’t pay a minute of attention to me, they’re in their own world. And that’s probably what the older folks feel, that “life’s passing me by”. I think that comes from the choices that you make years before, I do believe that. So I’m not as worried about it for myself.
RT: You speak very comfortably about your own age and you mentioned that there was a period around 45 when you were conscious of your age. Have there been other times or events in your life that have made you aware of your age?
Jane C: Yes, I had a sponsee who was about 8-9 years younger than me. She was blonde and petite, so opposite to me. We were very close friends for ten years but I felt very conscious that I was older. It was more what I looked like too. I didn’t think I looked as cute as she was because of her tiny, blonde looks and the guys seemed to really like that.
Sometimes I’m conscious of my age at my office. They’re all somewhere in their 30s and 40s, and sometimes I feel a bit nutty but I like being the nutty, older one. I’ll say, “it’s because I’m a crazy, old broad!” and I think that’s ridiculous because I don’t believe that, I just do it to get a laugh out of people.
RT: Is there any connection for you between the notion of old and someone’s age?
Jane C: Hmm, these questions are really making me think! It’s more about what you look like and to me, if the skin is frail, if the face is sad-looking with a lot of wrinkles, if they’re bent over…that to me looks old. I don’t always put an age to it.
RT: So there’s an image of what old is to you, more than an age…
Jane C: Yes. I don’t think of it in terms of an age. I don’t think, “Oh, she must be 90” or “She’s well on her way to 100”. I don’t think of it in terms of numbers.
RT: You mentioned before about your mom and her attitude and approach to aging. Is there anything else you’ve learned from your parents about growing older or aging?
Jane C: My dad died at 50, many years ago. My mother just loved to have that energy and unfortunately about 4 or 5 years ago, she fell, broke and dislocated her shoulder and has never been the same. It’s because she didn’t do the physiotherapy, it was probably very painful. I know because I went through physio for my knee. So now she’s appearing old. My sisters are very concerned about it. I’m feel impatient with her because I know she could have improved more with physio, but she doesn’t have the knowledge or program I have, I’m not trying to sound superior, so I have to really accept that this is where she is at, she’s frail.
Now we have to look after her to a degree which bothers me because I didn’t feel like I had a lot of looking after…she was too miserable in her own life, in her marriage. There wasn’t a lot of happiness at home. I’m so grateful that I found some from my 30s on.
RT: So what about other influences like media, culture, your religion, culture, peers? Has anything or anyone else been influential for you or influenced your ideas about aging or getting older?
Jane C: Well, I did have one friend who never wanted anyone to know her age, and an older friend at church said to me as I was turning 60, “Don’t tell anybody! It’s part of your womanly charm. Never let them know.” But she was sweet about it, and she’s of an older generation.
I know the media is youth-hungry but I’ve gotten over that. Probably I went through more angst about it when I was between 45 and 55, when I was seeing it really happen. For me, it all had to do with attractiveness, being pretty and whether I could attract the opposite sex.
RT: What have been the best things for you about getting older?
Jane C: Well, I think it’s that I continue to try to grow and that I grow emotionally and spiritually. I want to stay positive. But I can’t say that it’s because the number of years I’ve lived, it’s the (personal growth) work that I’ve done in the years to really know who I am and know that yes, I really want to do that or no, I don’t want to do that.
There is also the wisdom that comes with aging. Even if you don’t do the inner work on yourself, you do get to know what you want to do and what you don’t want to do, your likes and dislikes. You learn how to step away from situations without anger and know what’s not for you, letting it go at that.
RT: What have been the harder things for you about getting older?
Jane C: Seeing the changes in your body, not only the “softening jaw line” as my friend used to call it, but the upper arms, the flab, that kind of thing. But I never was a “Baywatch” girl. Still, it takes longer to work off stuff. I try not to let it get me. I don’t want to be alone and old but I don’t think I will be. I don’t have to change a lot about my lifestyle. I believe that things will come up when they’re supposed to.
RT: How, if at all, has your career or work been effected by your age or aging?
Jane C: Well I have to say that it really hasn’t because I’ve been lucky to be in high-tech since the early 80s. I got to know people and, although I’m not technical in the least, I picked up a certain amount and am part of the industry. I know people and can always get a job. I’ve been lucky that way and I know that what I do is something that people really value. They don’t want to do it themselves since it’s a kind of prospecting and I’m good at it. I’ve heard my boss say, “Oh, we don’t ever want you to retire!” So it’s just a great feeling.
RT: Have you ever experienced ageism or age-related stigma at work or outside of work?
Jane C: When I was a placement consultant, they call it recruiters now, for 14 years, I didn’t experience it myself but I remember marketing a secretary who was 42 years old to a company and the guy said to me, “Oh, she’ll be set in her ways.” And I thought, “You animal!” We got this all the time, it was during the mid-70s when you could ask someone their age. They used to have male and female job postings in the newspaper well before there was anything online. There was also a tremendous amount of racism too. It was ridiculous. I’m sure it still goes on. I feel fortunate to be who I am because I read in the employment papers about these men who are in their mid-50s and they’ve been in middle-to-upper management positions and are out of work. I feel really badly for them, that has to be very, very difficult. So you have to feel lucky if you’ve found a little perch.
Where I am is age-proof and I make sure that I stay up to the mark, that I’m quick to answer my emails. It’s great because it’s keeping me younger and keeps my mind going. But I have seen ageism in the workplace, it definitely happens.
RT: What does the concept of retirement mean to you? And do you want to retire? What do you want it to be?
Jane C: Well, I never really thought about it before. I guess everyone thinks it would be wonderful to have lots of money and be on a beach or something like that Freedom 55. I don’t think I ever thought of it back then. I got a kick out of going to work and that kept me going.
Now as I got older, I thought, I wonder if I will retire? I don’t really think I do. I even said to my boss that I would work three days a week because I’m getting my pensions and then I thought that I’d like to have some extra money so I’m going to stay at four days a week.
Since I’ve been feeling better lately and more uplifted, it’s going okay. But I’m not sure if I’m grieving or even close to grieving because I don’t think I’m ready to re-invent myself after retirement, I’m not retiring. I don’t really want to stay home. I now have some idea that if I found something that I really loved, then maybe I’d be happy to make less money and do that. But I’m not ready to retire, no, not from what I do. I enjoy it and I know it’s important for me to be with people and not sit at home and watch TV. That would be pretty bad.
RT: When you imagine finding something that would be compelling enough that you would consider not working, that thing that is meaningful and purposeful for you, what ideas do you have about that? What kind of thing(s) would motivate you?
Jane C: Well it’s all about, and this is a mark of age too because you’d never think this way in your 20s, but it would be with helping people. Being somewhere where you’re giving people support. I’d want to motivate people like helping at a social service agency, maybe one specializing in helping people with addictions, or that helps people get jobs. I’d be ideal at that because I did it before, call all types of companies to find out what they’re looking for and matching them up with clients. I’d want to work with people whom I can help.
RT: What was the most challenging transition in your life and what helped you get through it?
Jane C: The transition of leaving the employment agency in 1982 because I thought I just couldn’t do it anymore for some of the reasons I’d mentioned before. I’d been sober five years and things started opening up. That was difficult. I took the summer off. I did some career exploration, reading books like “What Color is Your Parachute?” and the “Three Boxes of Life” and I found out that one thing that I’d like to do is to teach. So I made the decision to go back to university, because I only had first year, get my Bachelor of Arts and then go to teacher’s college.
I went back two years part-time and by then I realized there’s nothing so magical for me about being in University, I wasn’t sure if I want to do this for another number of years and I thought I was ready to get back into business. I had just been so burned out from business.
So the transition of leaving that job and not really knowing what I was going to do was pretty wild. I remember re-doing my resume, looking at it and thinking, “I don’t know what else I would do.” I didn’t know about transferable skills then. I’d been at that job since I a young woman and had done well but that’s all I’d done.
Then I found out that what I really wanted to do was be a singer. I did that part-time and again, I discovered that it was not the dream I’d thought it would be.
RT: It was such a time of exploration for you.
Jane C: Yeah. I was trying all kinds of things. It was good. It was good to do that and to take singing lessons and really try, then beat myself up because I didn’t stay with it. But had I wanted to stay with it, I would have stayed with it. It just wasn’t for me. If I could have shot right to the top and made a million dollars in my first six weeks, sure!
RT: How did you figure that out? What helped you figure these pieces out and this career transition?
Jane C: I called my friend who is like a business mentor, he got me into the telemarketing company, and he gave me great advice.
RT: You have a great network.
Jane C: Well it’s AA (Alcoholics Anonymous). My business mentor was in AA. My network is also from being in placement – you’re just used to talking with people all the time and I guess it’s my nature.
RT: What do you know or appreciate today that you didn’t know when you were a young or middle-aged adult?
Jane C: I appreciate peace of mind. Through my time in AA and after I quit smoking, I thought it’s so nice not to have that squirrely mind, to be calm and take the next step, do the next right thing. But I’ve stood on the shoulders of giants, I didn’t do any of this by myself. An awful lot of this was through the wisdom in the rooms (of AA). It’s a fantastic program. It’s not just that you stop drinking. It’s that you really grow if you work at it. And I guess I really needed to because I was a very unhappy person.
RT: You’ve been talking about health…so what’s been your experience with it? What’s the impact or connection for you of health and age or aging?
Jane C: Well I think it’s a huge impact. And mentally healthy too, not worrying too much.
RT: So how does your health impact you?
Jane C: Well I mean it’s everything. It’s how I feel about work, my friends. I have to stay healthy otherwise I’m not going to feel good. And I hate feeling bad. I can go into a real downer when I start not feeling well. It’s just not good for my mental health. I start feeling very depressed and it can happen quickly so I’m careful with myself.
RT: What are your thoughts broadly on death and dying?
Jane C: It’s the biggest mystery in the world to me. I hate to hear about a terrible accidental death or about a murder or something that’s very untoward, for the survivors, it’s horrible, a horrible situation, that type of violence.
But I do believe there’s something after, I want to believe that. I’ve read all the Deepak Chopra books, and the Christian faith does say that too. So it doesn’t really bother me. Now maybe I’m in denial but it doesn’t bother me when someone dies. Maybe it’s because it hasn’t been close to me but they say it’s just another transition.
RT: Which do you fear more – death or dying?
Jane C: Yeah, it depends on…pain. I don’t know, I find it mystifying. I know that in some of the Eastern religions, you remind yourself, “I’m going to die” and say that during the day. It seems so odd, just reminding yourself you’re going to die. It’s so weird to know that…how do you get a handle on that? And some religions believe that when this is it, that’s it. So nobody knows.
I’ve read all about the near-death experiences and that comforts me. The religion I’m involved with now believes that the person, the consciousness is still there and that is kind of how I feel about it. I think that Deepak Chopra says that too – that consciousness is not local, it’s all over. That comforts me but I have no idea and I guess I don’t think about it much. I don’t want to…it sure is interesting though.
RT: Is there a difference for you, or do you fear your own death more or that of someone close to you?
Jane C: Oh, my own. Oh, yeah. The fear…I mean when you’re lying on that bed and taking the last few breaths, it might be scary. I don’t know. I don’t want to feel that I have to feel that way. Yeah, it’s a strange thing.
RT: How would you like to die?
Jane C: Probably very peacefully, in bed after an illness I guess…or just see the final breaths go. Sure, just peacefully.
RT: What’s it like to be talking about aging, dying and death? Do you have any feelings about it, about having this conversation?
Jane C: The aging one, I can tell that I’m not too concerned about it, I know it’s going to happen. I’m going to be careful of myself.
But the death and dying conversation really does bring up a lot of thoughts. The religion I’m in does offer clarity about immortality and I like that. Probably not going to think, think, think about it, only going to see it as something to be fascinated by than overwhelmed by what will happen.
In one of Scott Peck’s books there’s a story of what happens after you die and how you have to learn how to move around without a body, you have to learn to get the consciousness and some people are still learning on one level and they have to learn more before they move on.
RT: If you were to share a piece of advice about the experience of aging and about getting to where you are today with people who are younger than you, what would it be?
Jane C: I think it’s very important to have a faith in something greater than yourself, call it what you will – the life force, the collective humanity. I think you have to connect with other people. I was a very self-centered young woman and all I cared about was how I looked and how much money I was going to make, but I was very upset inside and of course I loved to drink. I know that isolation of spirit is a killer and I would think you have to reach out and love.
If you don’t love, your life will fly by you. You have to love something other than yourself. When I was a young woman, I was self-involved, apathetic, had no goals. Love is the answer. It really is, love is the answer.
I think what’s become evident to me is that my alcoholism helped get me into this program and these 12steps are helpful for anyone, anyone can use them for living, because we’re all powerless over something.
The unexamined life is not worth living. Don’t try to fill that hole with another pair of shoes. Take a look at what’s really going on, and get therapy if you need it.
